Prove me wrong: Bleed sucks in PvP

Ok, now that you are here. I'll say that I really don't want luck/bleed builds to suck. I have a 120 thief and I cannot figure out what to do with him. My friend and I tested a bleed build last night and that is the reason for the title.

I'll explain:

Our test was designed to compare the DPS of bleed weapons with luck invested to the DPS of sharp weapons with dex invested (we compared to sharp because bleed weapons hit fast and these are usually dex weapons).

Here is the setup:

  • My friend was using a 27/40/40 str,dex,lck. I was using an 11/82 str/dex. Both characters are 120.
  • He spent 66 points (warrior start) in damage contributing stats (counting luck up to 35 only because he had an off-hand hollow for a bonus 5).
  • I spent 67 points (mercenary start) in damage stats (66 in dex, 1 str).
  • We tried weapons of the same classes against each other:
  • His blood Uchigatana vs my sharp
  • His blood flambarge vs my sharp
  • His blood Astora Great vs my sharp
  • His blood crow talons vs my sharp
  • His blood warden twin blades vs my sharp sellsword
  • His blood bandit knife vs my sharp dagger

I tried to stack the odds in the blood weapons' favor. I would have him hit me the number of times it took to bleed (4 or 5 in all cases). This gives the blood weapons the most damage in the fewest hits. I would then hit him an equivalent number of times with the equivalent weapon (e.g. he hits me with uchi 5 times for bleed and we compare to me hitting him with sharp uchi 5 times).

Result summary

The ONLY time that the bleed did more damage was with the bandit knife vs the dagger. That was by fewer than 50 hp. Most saw the sharp way ahead (over 200 sometimes). We then brainstormed the non-damage advantages and dis-advantages of bleed:

Other bleed advantages:

  • Can build up even when hit on a roll. This does not happen often though. Most of the time I would roll through without it building.
  • Large chunk damage upon bleed proc.
  • Bleed can build through shields.

Other bleed disadvantages:

  • The bleed proc can be rolled through and thus wasted
  • The clock is always against you with the natural bleed degradation
  • The other player can use red moss to completely erase the buildup
  • The other player can ring swap to blood bite to significantly slow bleed build.
  • Bleed weapons cannot be buffed.


(In PvP) Bleed sucks and therefore luck sucks. In another thread I asked about the usefulness of hollow infusions and the answer I basically got was that you are to use them along-side bleed weapons. Well I think they both suck. Someone disagree. Someone point out a flaw or oversight in my testing. I want to be wrong here. I want my 120 luck build to work somehow…

TL:DR Even given seemingly optimal conditions, bleed builds will do less damage than a comparable dex build with almost all weapon classes.

P.S I had originally just posted this in the builds sub, but I think this is more than just a build discussion so I am placing it in the main sub as well. Mods let me know if this is not OK.

Original post

2 Replies to “Prove me wrong: Bleed sucks in PvP

  1. Your wrong. Lets look at a PROPER bleed build. Anyone that knows how to actually make a bleed build knows the first rule of a bleed build. Never use a blood gem. The second rule: Carthus Rouge is bae.
    Main weapons used:
    1. Any with inherent bleed buildup without infusion/buff.

    The two main infusions you will see on bleed builds:
    1. Hollow: Allows for DMG and buildup speed scaling based on your luck stat while lowering STR/DEX Scaling some. Usually lower AR but faster procs.
    2. Refined/Heavy/Sharp (Depends on weapon type): You don’t get the same buildup speed but higher AR. In the end you still will bleed people using Carthus Rouge. The AR difference makes up for lost buildup speed.
    Bleed infusion is ass as it does not give much extra bleed to weapons that already have it and significantly lowers AR.

    Good example of a proper bleed build:
    Start class: Knight
    Main stats: Str, Dex, Luck (Quality, Luck build)
    Weapon: Hollow Warden Twinblades +10 (at 99 Hollowing gives +5 luck)
    Secondary: Hollow Caestus +10 (at 99 Hollowing gives +5 luck)
    Rings: Hunter ring, Knight ring, Prisoner’s Chain, Variable (RoF, Milkring, bloodring, work well)

    This is what your stats would look like with that setup:
    Total Level: 120
    VIG: 39 (34+5 Prisoner’s Chain)
    ATT: 10
    END: 40 (35+5 Prisoner’s Chain)
    VIT: 20 (15+5 Prisoner’s Chain)
    STR: 40 (35+5 Knight’s Ring)
    DEX: 40 (32+5+3 Hunter’s Ring, Carthus Milk ring)
    INT: 9
    FTH: 9
    Luck: 40 (30+10 2x Hollow infusion at 99 hollowing)
    Hollowing: 99 (Just die a shitload ;P)

    Rings: Hunter’s Ring, Knight’s Ring, Prisoner’s Chain, Carthus Milk Ring.
    Weapons: Hollow Warden Twinblades +10 363AR , Hollow Caestus +10 360AR.

    1. Don’t forget that sweet sweet carthus to give you a nice boost in bleed buildup too 😀

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